Another avenue of thought is that your quotes are reflective of a mentality and interpretation that is 2000 years old. It has not evolved with society so that they now are whimsical and nonsensical.  Jesus, told his disciples that the Holy Spirit was taking over his teachings for humanity and we have as a theology placed a period at the end of the bible instead of a comma noting a new change of thought and interpretation. That of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe the faith is there, but because we do not move the messages or note how science and our mentality have changed our views of the supernatural and God, then the faith becomes non relational to many people.  Look at the battles that take place in today's world over the words and interpretations.  Just recently it was considered heresy to allow women to be equals and teach children, let alone be pastors or ministers. Slaves were accepted freely and justified through the word. As a theology we tend to use the terms and thoughts of a 2000 year old society to govern how we should act, and not use what the lessons show us on how to treat each other, how to change the meanings as society changes, how we were given the power and authority to do so to promote peace, harmony, respect and love for God.

The underlying problem with your example is that they are interpretations of the bible.  While to you they are false, they also are quite true.


I agree with your definition  on good and bad. However, the saying is also considered as defining that a "good" person is one who follows the laws of the bible and living the way of the denomination.  "Bad"  are people who do not "believe" in the same way or act in deference to the denominations view of the laws.  This definition allows for the statement to be true.  Is there not a common saying that if you keep doing "bad" or "not believing" a certain way that the person will go to hell.  It is a cornerstone of "saving" people from their consequences of life.
Anxiety makes a valid point that God as described by the Jews is beyond the rules of the universe. He lives outside of creation and is not bound by our logic. Which allows the last two statement to be true also.

The watered down analogies do not diminish the faith of the people, but does show that people have become mentally lazy in their quest for knowledge and meaning of the words in the bible.  They have given their authority and rationale to those who "coin" these sayings as was once the way that the bible was taught in the early years of the church before the population was able to read the bible on their own.

I wouldn't assert that so quickly and matter-of-factly. The positive position to those questions has been defended  by theologians for centuries.

God may exist outside the bounds of logic. Even a person can forgive without forgetting.


Edit: Grammar.

You're absolutely right. Even the church is subject to social pressures. Even crazies back down to certain circumstances --see: the extremist pastor who backed down from burning the Koran even after he gained so much attention for threatening to do so.

While that example might not be exactly congruent to allowing divorce (or ignoring it at least) it does illuminate the idea of social influence.

Does working on Sunday count as a forgivable/forgotten sin?

(I use the term "forgivable sins" in a sense of mockery, not a literal sense.)

There are some topics that churches won't touch with a 50-foot pole for fear of offending their congregation. Church leaders will stand up and condemn homosexuality and abortion no problem, but when it comes to, say, divorce, they will sooner brush it under the rug than preach what the Bible says. No doubt it's a numbers game -- people want a church that makes them feel saintly.

What other "forgivable sins" are there?

For example:
"Good people go to Heaven and bad people go to Hell."
"God can do anything."
"God knows everything."

Biblically (and common sensibly) speaking, all of the above statements are false. For example:
-- "Good" and "bad" are subjective terms, and do not determine a person's entry into Heaven or Hell anyway.
-- God can't do nonsense (in response to another's question, "Can God make a rock that he can't lift?").
-- God does not know everything, if he chooses to forget people's sins once they repent.

What has this watered-down presentation of the Gospel done to modern people's faith (or lack thereof)?

If anyone knows where I can find (FREE) resources for Bible study, aimed at the middle school level (ages 11-14), please post them here. 

Also maybe throw in a prayer or two that I can convince my administration that we could do this!

That's a great and very interesting question. I believe everything comes down to one's free will and the choices we make in life. Regarding the mystery of our existence, is it really as mysterious as we think it is? We have two choices! We believe what the bible tells us about our origins or we believe what science can tell us. No matter which choice we make, either decision requires faith. Science still can't explain our origins other than there was a beginning to our universe. Something had to exist to create the universe, sounds a lot like what the bible tells us but still doesn't prove that God exists. There is absolutely no way we can empirically prove or disprove the existence of God. It's simple! It all comes down to faith!

Thinking in naturalistic terms to explain our origins doesn't really coincide with what we observe about human nature. If things were purely natural, we would have no good or evil in the world. A person can choose to be good or they can choose to be evil. Funny how it comes back to free will and the choices we make. I wonder why it's that way? If naturalism is true then the love we have for our families is nothing more than a chemical reaction, and being angry or sad is just a chemical reaction, we are living in pure random chaos. That doesn't mesh with what we observe in the world. It comes down to the decisions we make,good or evil. That sounds like spirit to me! Sounds a lot like the bible! We can choose to believe or not to believe. It's up to us!

Your question is legitimate and maybe the reason people are not discussing your thoughts is that to answer is to put one's ego on the line.

To agree that God also means "I don't know" opens the speaker to the savage elements of constant doubt, wherein a soul searching would be warranted; realistically the speaker just shuts down those avenues and terminates a self exploration of one's views on the world and their own life.

My answer is as such:  Scientifically and historically God can be assumed to be mankind's created reason to explain the unknown.  As we learn more and more about the universe, those mysteries go away and we doubt that the original thought was  about a higher power.
God is therefore the great "I don't know" of our lives.

Then we have the human ego to take into this equation.  For we could not stand to exist and create anything without the thought that we have a higher purpose then merely existing, reproducing, dying and using up the earth resources. There is not a meaning to life then. Which then lends itself to the thought that we must be able change our molecular structure somehow upon death and recreate a new life or "existence" which would allow us to gain further knowledge, abstain moral greatness and with that a betterment of our current status. Thus the need for a "God" to be in existence. It allows us to be able to cross over into the unknown areas with a sense of being correct and having a knowledge that just has not been given to us at this time.

Personally, I believe in a "higher power" just not the norm of most people. I accept that in the early days of our cultures and civilization that God was enough to keep the masses together with a continuity which allowed the development of who we are today.  God's Will is still a valid thought along with a wonder and acceptance that while we may not know what the outcome is, eventually a good action will almost always be the outcome.  If people want to say it the will of God, then I am conducive to agreeing with them.  I personally believe that we are energy sources that are in transition and we have put forth a pathway before we were born that we will be bound to for the rest of our lives.  God never leaves you, God does Good and Evil, but it is a relationship between me and the God that is the battleground, do I leave my chosen path of relationship to become bitter, hard, uncaring about any relationships or do I as skillfully demonstrated in the book of Job, stay the course to find that in the long run, my relationship with God, the Universe, Jesus, Budhha, etc. will be in my benefit.

Frankly, I think that those who question religion's thoughts, motives and avenues are the great teachers.  For through your questioning comes self reflection, self doubt, self determination, and if  we let our feelings go by the wayside a greater awareness of who we are and what we should be doing for each other on the planet.

Hope this made sense.

On FB a friend who I knew from years ago, found me and was like, "hey, you're not Christian anymore?" I was like, wow it has been a super long time....    So, let's try this again. This might go round and round in circles, but let's give it a try.

Often I think about the universe and the mystery of our existence. I don't know what brought the universe into existence, I'm not sure anyone does. That's a hard answer. Some people tell me that the answer is easy. God made the universe. Well does that really answer the question? Or do we just use the word God to hide our ignorance. I think I know what the word "universe" means. But, what does the word "God" mean. Some religious people will even say, God is a mystery, we don't know what God is really, God is beyond our understanding. Okay, that's find, then when the topic of the origins of the universe comes up, why use God as any answer. Why not just simply say, "I don't know."

Do you get what I am trying to say? Does that make any sense.

A: Where did the universe come from?
B: X made the universe?
A: What made X?
B: X is uncaused and infinite.
A: What does that mean?
B: It's a mystery.
A: Then why not just say the origins of the universe is a mystery and skip all the talk about X.

Do you see what I mean?

*Given that context.*
*Question 1:* If God made the universe, who made God, or where did God come from?

*Question 2:* Does saying God made/created the universe actually dodge the question?

*Question 3:* Do we just use the word God when we do not know what or why? Can the word God remain meaningful if we use it like this?
For example: Where did the universe come from? God did it. Why are there humans and such a beautiful green planet? God wanted it that way. Why do young innocent children die of painful cancer? God has a plan.  Insert a question about something we do not understand or can?t control. Answer: God.

*Possible conclusion*
By usage, functionally the word starts to sound like a secret code word for "I do not know" or "I do not understand." But, if that is so, then why not just say, I don't know.