example of "outside manipulation"
wikipedia - Currently, the grapefruit is said to be one of the "Seven Wonders of Barbados."[3] It had developed as a hybrid of the pomelo (Citrus maxima) with the sweet orange (Citrus sinensis), though it is closer to the former. The 1929 Ruby Red patent was associated with real commercial success, which came after the discovery of a red grapefruit growing on a pink variety.
The grapefruit does not exist in this world without the use of "outside manipulation". As noted, it is a hybrid and would not have come into existence on it's own. All of the Ruby red grapefruit with it's worldwide distribution can be traced to this one pink grapefruit tree in Texas. Through propagation from humans, it has become a staple in the citrus world. All Ruby Reds are traced directly to this one tree and the occurence in the world of a "sport" (mutation, or "change') that happened. As most of the red grapefruit have very limited seeds- less than 5 per fruit, the chances of it reproducing itself from only one branch of fruit is miniscule and reasonably would not exist without the interference by humans.
The science of botany has the greatest amount of "outside manipulation" examples. The different varieties of plants would not come into existence without the interference of another species.
If there is no time, and nothing is "created" in essence. There is no beginning of anything so creation is possible, therefore there can be no creator.
I believe that you meant "There is no beginning of anything so
no creation is possible' - typo?
The dictionary defines creation as -1. the act of producing or causing to exist; the act of creating; engendering.
But the act of propagation in plants and cross breeding as noted above would fit into this definition. Therefore, there is a creator. They did not make anything new as you note, all the material is in the universe, but they did "manipulate" material to "create" a new byproduct.
Would not such a scenario be valid for the animal kingdom as it stands today?
