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Anxiety
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« on: February 23, 2008, 07:07:59 PM » |
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Should we prohibit alcohol?
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Overseer
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 09:02:53 PM » |
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prohibition didn't work very well...
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"Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.
Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope."
--Oscar Wilde
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Anxiety
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2008, 02:52:27 PM » |
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I'm more interested in why you want (or don't want) to prohibit alcohol.
The problem I have is that there isn't consistency in American drug policies. Alcohol is legal for persons over 21 but marijuana is not. When it comes to health issues alcohol is far more dangerous. This simply does not make sense to me. The government should either prohibit alcohol along with marijuana, or highly tax and regulate marijuana much like alcohol. I'm just looking for consistency in government law and policy.
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« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 02:55:01 PM by Anxiety »
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Anxiety
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 04:21:03 PM » |
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I guess this would be a good time to note why I'm bringing this up.
I'll preface this with the following: I do not use drugs nor have I ever, except for alcohol which I drink in social situations.
I was on my way to Georgia to see a concert with a friend of mine. I was pulled over for essentially no reason, but was told my license plate was obstructed (it wasn't). The officer then asked to search my car, I declined on principle, and because it wasn't my car. He brought in a narcotics dog and the dog went crazy.
My friend had less than an ounce of marijuana on him that I didn't know about, so they arrested both of us. We spent over 9 hours in jail. If I were destitute and didn't save $900 to bail myself out I would have had to wait there until my court date which was two weeks after they arrested me (unlawfully that is).
Long story short, I was arrested for no reason, put in jail for 9 hours, had to spend over $1500 in attorney fees and drive back up to Georgia all just to have the district attorney dismiss the case. My friend got a year probation and a $1000 fine (which could have been a year in jail).
The judge accused me of being a terrible and bad person before signing the dismissal papers, and she noted that I must have been doing drugs as well because I've known my friend for years.
All for something that's a personal choice not affecting others, until the law gets involved anyway.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 06:28:51 PM » |
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It's more than that. It's justice failing.
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Overseer
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2008, 07:06:52 PM » |
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The police department must have been low on funds... sorry to hear about that. Way to ruin a perfectly good weekend I'm sure.
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"Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.
Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope."
--Oscar Wilde
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Brandy
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 09:34:46 AM » |
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The problem I have is that there isn't consistency in American drug policies. Alcohol is legal for persons over 21 but marijuana is not. When it comes to health issues alcohol is far more dangerous.
This simply does not make sense to me.
The government should either prohibit alcohol along with marijuana, or highly tax and regulate marijuana much like alcohol. I'm just looking for consistency in government law and policy.
My experience (in observation) has been that marijuana generally ( generally creates an almost instant high, followed by a crashing low, while alcohol (depending on tolerance, of course) generally takes a little longer to have an affect. I know that the effect of both of these really depend on the individual person. I did read an article that said that studies are being done that show there may be a possible link between marijuana and basically losing your mind (forgive me, I can't remember the exact diagnosis used- it may have been pschizophrenia). Of course, this hasn't been proven, but there may be a link. I believe, though I may be mistaking, that there is a link between marijuana and the loss of brain cells. Whereas there are plenty of functioning alcoholics. I have never smoke marijuana myself. For one, it smells nasty. Two, I've seen the "high" and "low" from just one little roll and it just doesn't look like a whole lot of fun- and makes you look stupid. I think another problem with marijuana is that often there are other things it is "laced" with, which cause more problems. I do, however, know the effects alcohol can have, but that also depends on the person, though those effects have been proven. For some, though, a glass of wine will instantly calm them down. For others, it takes a few more. And for others, it takes a whole liquor cabinet. I, myself, feel nothing different from one glass of wine. However, I have seen the effects of drinking too much, and it is enough to make me not want to push those boundaries.  I don't know the reasoning behind the laws, but I've heard this argument before. I think it is worth researching, though I don't see the laws changing anytime soon, even if it was proven that alcohol is worse or that marijuana really isn't all that bad. We've seen with so many things that often what we've been taught, even if it is proven false, we don't change our way of thinking. I'm sorry about your experience, though. You were judged based on something someone else did. It wasn't right. I can't believe the judge said something like that to you, either. When statements like that are made, they are made out of ignorance, apathy, and a very small box the brain sits nicely in. Often, they are also made out of past bad experiences, inwhich anybody who remotely resembles those experiences, get judged in the same way. (Does that make any sense?) 
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Anxiety
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 11:56:25 AM » |
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I'm talking about responsible adult use of the drug. But for the sake of arguing let's say the person uses it irresponsibly: Alcohol: You can easily overdose on alcohol, get alcohol poisoning and die. In 1996 the total number of deaths with any mention of alcohol poisoning was 1,393 per year.Comparatively the number of overdoses in the history of mankind due to THC/Marijuana has been 0. You simply cannot overdose and die from Tetrahydrocannabinol. Also: Yes, both marijuana and alcohol have both been proven to cause loss of brain cells. The worst marijuana can do is that it has been tested to have a slight correlation to lung cancer (see: very much legal cigarettes). "Alcohol use may contribute to liver disease, heart disease, peptic ulcers, and physical dependency. Marijuana use may contribute to problems thinking clearly, memory loss, dependency, and (if smoked) smoking-related health problems, such as throat and lung cancer and respiratory problems. Furthermore, both alcohol and marijuana are thought to contribute to mental health problems, such as depression and anxiety. " I'm not defending the health issue, it's probably healthier for a normal person without cancer or glaucoma to not use it regularly, just like it's not healthy to use alcohol regularly. I think another problem with marijuana is that often there are other things it is "laced" with, which cause more problems. That's because marijuana, as it is now, is like moonshine during prohibition. It isn't regulated by the FDA and thus is open for things being laced to it (like antifreeze and lead during the boozin' era). There's an obvious solution to this problem. To reiterate, It would be consistent to either: 1) Regulate and tax marijuana like alcohol and tobacco. 2) Prohibit everything that may, in the event the person decides to use, has a chance at marginally harming their body long term with regular use. (alcohol, cigarettes, fatty foods, marijuana, typing on a nonergonomic keyboard) Where do we draw the line? Regardless of the obvious restriction of freedom these laws cause, they simply aren't consistent or logical, and even the laws themselves aren't consistent from state to state.
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Brandy
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2008, 12:17:45 PM » |
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I was talking about the more immediate effects of using one vs. the other. One blunt will give you a high and a low. One drink of alcohol doesn't generally do much. I am fully aware of the effects of alcohol, but I also know of intelligent, articulate alcoholics. I've also met people who use marijuana regularly and I can't say the same about them. That's just my observation- and a thought for maybe a reason as to why it's treated as different. Plus, I do read and I read the article about the possible links to marijuana and pschizophrenia (and it was said that this could happen down the road- long after the person stopped smoking marijuana). So, it may not be less harmful than alcohol. Just a thought. Not necessarily a truth. I don't know the reasoning behind the laws, but I've heard this argument before. I think it is worth researching, though I don't see the laws changing anytime soon, even if it was proven that alcohol is worse or that marijuana really isn't all that bad. We've seen with so many things that often what we've been taught, even if it is proven false, we don't change our way of thinking.
I reposted this statement on purpose. Often, people stick with what they were taught. And when they hear the same thing for so long, and it's proven to be different, it's hard to change that mindset.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2008, 12:27:31 PM » |
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Yeah, and because of this refusal to reevaluate the situation we're filling up our jails with nonviolent "criminals".
If marijuana is so addictive and harmful as the government says it is, and they're only possessing enough to do harm to themselves, then wouldn't you think the proper action would be rehabilitation, not more punishment?
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Brandy
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 02:06:00 PM » |
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Yeah, and because of this refusal to reevaluate the situation we're filling up our jails with nonviolent "criminals".
If marijuana is so addictive and harmful as the government says it is, and they're only possessing enough to do harm to themselves, then wouldn't you think the proper action would be rehabilitation, not more punishment?
This could be said of a few things. But, if driving under the influence of alcohol is harmful to others, then shouldn't driving while high on marijuana be illegal as well? In that respect, it seems to be equal. In both cases, yes, rehabilitation should be a priority, though I'd say that would also require creating rehabs that actually help. But, that's just from personal observation as well. So, no offense to those who it's worked for...or those who still think it does work.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 02:33:18 PM » |
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But, if driving under the influence of alcohol is harmful to others, then shouldn't driving while high on marijuana be illegal as well? Yes, of course. Again, we're talking about responsible adult use of it. It's currently illegal to possess marijuana. It is not currently illegal to possess alcohol. This is not consistent. That's the discussion I thought we were having.
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Paul
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 07:55:49 PM » |
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Probably the most likely reason that Marijuana will never be legalized is that it conflicts with a major industry's profit margins. Tobacco and Alcohol is already large business and has inroads on the political arena. To legalize Marijuana would then throw another substance into this market of addictive agents. The cost of buying farms, merchandising and advertising is a challenging hurdle to overcome. For the major players in this market, it would be possible to do all that Anxiety is asking to have happen to keep the product clean and safe for the purchasers. However, the players are not prepared at this time to invest. The major supplier of Marijuana is from outside countries. They hold the power and advantage to the market should the product become legal. They have the fields, processing plants and with only a minimum effort could package and sell the product in this country.
Why would Tobacco and Alcohol want to give up or share a limited market with an outside vendor? They cannot make the turnaround on Marijuana fast enough to compete in that new market and then would end up on the minority scale of progits. Only when people stop using the products already in place today (alcohol and tobacco) will you see a change in the laws. Lobbyists do protect their own pockets.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2008, 02:17:47 PM » |
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I think you'd see an increase in tax revenue if it were legalized and heavily taxed.
This is in the best interest of the government, not the lobbyists. I suppose the officials like their nice stays in resorts free of charge a little too much.
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moosemaster1341
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2008, 02:38:10 PM » |
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I think the debate here is not whether marijuana should be used, but whether it should be prohibited by the government.
Marijuana is proven safer than alcohol, but I'm not entirely sure how addictive it is as compared to booze seeing as I have never tried it, and reliance on the drug is more a personal issue.
Being that each person responds to drugs differently, putting a blanket law on it seems unethical. I firmly believe we should be stewards of our own body. Letting the government control this aspect of our health is a small loss of our freedom, our ability to choose. The same argument used to keep marijuana out of public hands can also apply to Cigarettes, Alcohol and fatty foods. What if the government one day outlawed Oatmeal Creme Pies? (my personal favorite ... mmmmmm) Yes, that seems extreme, and it is, but this is the type of system you're advocating by outlawing marijuana use.
Viva la Libertarian.
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But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most? - Mark Twain
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