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Author Topic: Amendment 2  (Read 740 times)
Anxiety
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« on: October 29, 2008, 06:35:59 PM »



"...it caused a lot of concern for others.  Concern that rights would be infringed particularly if you disagreed with gay marriage."

What rights would be infringed upon if gay marriage is made legal? 

Note: the proposed 2nd amendment to the Florida constitution is attempting to define marriage between a man and a woman as well as eliminating benefits for heterosexual domestic partners.  I'm confused as why people are pushing for this considering marriage between members of the same sex is not recognized in Florida.
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Brandy
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 08:44:23 AM »

Note: the proposed 2nd amendment to the Florida constitution is attempting to define marriage between a man and a woman as well as eliminating benefits for heterosexual domestic partners.  I'm confused as why people are pushing for this considering marriage between members of the same sex is not recognized in Florida.

I'm confused. The 2nd amendment to the Florida constituion wants to define marriage as between a man and a woman, but eliminate benefits for heterosexual domestic partners? Or did you mean it wants to eliminate benefits for homosexual domestic partners?
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Miranda
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2008, 09:02:00 AM »

Heterosexual. Unless you have a traditional marriage, no benefits. Including elderly couples who have lived together for years and years and never officially got married, because it never mattered in order for them to share an insurance plan, for example.
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Brandy
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2008, 10:43:14 AM »

Ah. That was my other guess. Interesting... Thank you for the clarification.  Smiley
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Paul
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 05:35:52 PM »

Yeah, it's much more convincing if you run against gays.  When you talk about elderly couples who it really  would affect, then it is not such a good deal.  But, you know that the elderly are living in sin, do not consider that a lot of them have to NOT get married to maximise their social security benefits or pensions from a former spouse who died. 
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Anxiety
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 12:56:56 PM »

I cannot believe this bigoted piece of trash passed.
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Miranda
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 04:14:24 PM »

Now, I'm not opposed to recognizing and teaching homosexuality during literature, political science, sex ed, or whatever, once the children hit the fifth or sixth grade level and can properly process that information.  But there is no need to start teaching it at five years old.  Just as there is no need to start teaching about the intricacies of world religions at five years old.

Educators should WANT parents to be involved, and dismissing their concerns is not the way to encourage them.


I completely disagree that five years old is too young to teach children about things like religion or even homosexuality. Call me radical but my three-year-old understands much better than many adults I know and I definitely do not try to shield her from anything. For instance on Spetember 11th, I told her why it is a notable day. I did not tell her how the Bush administration used the tragedy for their own political gain, but I told her what happened. She was also informed about many political issues this election year. Never assume that an issue is too "intricate" for a child. If we do not treat homosexuality as "normal" how can we ever expect society to do the same?

I do agree with your second point. Very much so.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 09:52:42 PM »

Should they have to ask questions before we start giving them answers? 
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Miranda
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 11:15:37 PM »

First of all, it is a mistake to assume all children develop at the same rate, because they do not.  Secondly, it is your choice to teach your child about "adult" issues like politics and sexuality.  As a parent it is entirely up to you, but it is not the school's place to assume that all parents want those things taught, or that all children are at the same stage in their cognitive development.  Many five-year-olds haven't even asked the "where do babies come from?" question yet.  It's not saying that homosexuality is abnormal, it is merely recognizing the fact that many children cannot adequately process that information.  The same thing goes for religion.  If you would like your five-year-old to be brought up Catholic, by all means, teach your child about Catholicism.  But schools don't need to teach five-year-olds about abstract concepts they do not have the ability to understand.  Don't get me wrong -- homosexuality, religion, and other controversial issues NEED to be discussed in schools, but these things need to be introduced at an appropriate age.  The parents in the video have every reason to be concerned.

If you will notice, I never once said that all children develop at the same rate. Not sure where you got that from..... Yes, it is my choice. My kid can handle it and I choose to educate her. I don't teach her about "sexuality" but to think average children cannot understand the no-so-abstract concept of a partnership or marriage is really condescending. My daughter does not have two active parents, but many do. That is a part of their daily reality. It is way more than sexuality, it is a relationship, a connection. Maybe I would rather my daughter be taught about these apparently controversial issues - really just a part of life that a large segment of society cannot come to terms with - rather than taking time out of her day of education to learn simple songs in a music class. Actually, yeah, I really would.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 01:43:13 AM »

I think you slightly missed the point.

Then if you would be so kind please clarify/answer the question.
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Miranda
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 12:03:00 PM »

Secondly, I find it pretty outrageous that the schools will not allow parents to have input in their children's education.  Unfortunately, homosexuality is still a very controversial issue.  I know it should not be, but it is, and until it becomes a "normal" thing in schools (such as multiculturalism, which also used to be controversial), parents need to have input in the process.  Why?  Well first of all, they will feel less threatened.  If their voices are being heard and they have the option of saying "I do not want my five-year-old child to hear this story," they will be less likely to oppose this current "movement" in its entirety.  That would be like me forcing my non-Christian students to sing "Silent Night," even though the parents might not want their children exposed to Christianity.  Educators should WANT parents to be involved, and dismissing their concerns is not the way to encourage them.


Wait.  Huh? You said this, then when I, a parent, expressed my opinion on what my daughter will learn in the public education system, you became offended. Yes, I know, you are a music education major. You are not the only one, however, and there is no reason to take my comment personally. My brother is actually a music teacher, just not in the public education system. My voice, because it is opposed to what you are studying to do, is not worthy of "being heard"? You dismiss my concern as "hurtful and uncalled for" rather than accepting it as the opinion of one parent. HOnestly, I would rather my daughter study philosophy in kindergarten than music. Children may not be able to understand some complicated theories or read The Republic yet, but they can certainly be encouraged to think and express thoughts. That is my personal, parental input. In the car on the way to pre-school every morning, Emma and I sing songs, each of us taking a different part. We clap to the beat, we even attempt harmonizing (not so good on that just yet). I do value the teaching of music. However, when you dismiss introducing children of the idea of homosexuality as normal as unnecessary and seem to support the rights of parents to have input regarding what their children should NOT be taught more so than what they SHOULD be taught, you are encouraging close-mindedness. Children DO have questions about prickly topics. This is maybe a bit personal, but my daughter frequently asks me why I have breasts while she does not. Should these concerns of hers be swept aside because childhood should be, as the woman in the video suggests, "carefree"? I, for one, would never want my child to live free of care.

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SoulRebel
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 03:44:33 PM »

on the topic of when is the right time to start teaching kids about sexuality....
I don't know


but I do know that very young children are getting taught it somehow regardless of what is in the schools' curriculum

I say that because I used to babysit a 4 year old who would kiss every female he saw on TV and say it was his girlfriend.... ok, that may not be too bad but he also told me he wanted me to take my clothes off so he can lie naked on top of me.... I don't think I was reading too much into "innocent" gestures. I think he was exposed to sex somehow and wants to try it. When he decided to take his pants off and rub his penis against my leg, that's when it really hit me that this was not natural curiosity... he must have seen something that stirred his interest in sexuality.

this sex education thing can be a whole new topic though.

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