Bruce Blagg
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« on: November 11, 2008, 02:39:34 PM » |
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Anxiety posted the following statement on the topic of hope many months ago. What is your definition of hope? The expectation that a certain desire will be fulfilled? If so, I want no part of this "hope". I hope for nothing. A definition of hope was provided by Brandy (I believe), but then the thread got off on to something else. I was going back over some of the old topics to see if there was anything I wanted to comment on when I found this. I would like for us to take up the topic again if we can. Anxiety, do you really "hope for nothing"? I'm not challenging the statement. I'm trying to understand what was meant. I always found you to be a very "hopeful" person, but then I may be using the word differently. When I read the comment I thought about a life that hopes for nothing and I had a hard time comprehending it. As I examined the concept I came to realize that I hope for a lot of things (not necessarily material things). Anyone interested in discussing hope again? |
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Anxiety
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 02:56:54 PM » |
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Before I'm able to answer that I need to know what hope actually is.
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Bruce Blagg
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 07:52:38 AM » |
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It is what you meant when you said you "hope for nothing". What is it?  |
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Anxiety
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2008, 01:29:19 PM » |
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Desire for a good outcome?
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Brandy
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2008, 01:50:22 PM » |
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Desire for a good outcome?
Is that what hope means to you? I mean, are you answering this for yourself, like the question asks, or are you answering it the way you think others believe it is? |
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Anxiety
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2008, 01:53:46 PM » |
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The question mark is because it's an ambiguous and abstract term and I'm not sure if this would be a true and acceptable description. If we are to be consistent in the way in which we communicate, then the definitions must be universal.
Can I get some help out with this one?
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Brandy
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2008, 02:29:21 PM » |
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Well, a definition from Merriam-Webster, I believe, was given in the thread Bruce is referring to. And now he's asking what hope means to you. Maybe you could first answer what it means to you and what you meant when you made the comment Bruce referred to???
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Anxiety
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2008, 06:59:02 PM » |
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Hope
:to desire with expectation of obtainment If we can agree to call it this, then why is this a productive thing to hold onto? |
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Bruce Blagg
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 05:46:08 AM » |
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why is this a productive thing to hold onto? Desire provides the motivation to strive for the objective. The expectation of obtainment provides the endurance to persevere in the endeavor. If these are so, then I believe this would be a productive thing to hold on to. Without hope, perseverance is futile. |
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Brandy
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 08:41:29 AM » |
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Hope
:to desire with expectation of obtainment If we can agree to call it this, then why is this a productive thing to hold onto? Because last time you disagreed and said you didn't want anything to do with it. The question is: Why? |
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Michelle
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 10:12:27 AM » |
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Hope
:to desire with expectation of obtainment If we can agree to call it this, then why is this a productive thing to hold onto? I know this is kind of a lame example  , but do you hope for a degree in philosophy in a year or two? (I can't remember what year you are!). I would assume that, using the definition provided, you desire with expectation to obtain a degree. Or did you mean, when you said you hope for nothing, less tangible things? Do you not hope to marry or find a fulfilling relationship some day? Or to be a father? Just curious  You really don't have to answer any of those; They are just some of the things I have hoped for (with the exception of being a father!  ), so I was interested to know more. |
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Anxiety
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 04:58:12 PM » |
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Because last time you disagreed and said you didn't want anything to do with it. The question is: Why? A man who expects nothing is never disappointed. I know this is kind of a lame example, but do you hope for a degree in philosophy in a year or two? No, it is a goal, not a desire. Teleology doesn't include expectations. Do you not hope to marry or find a fulfilling relationship some day? Or to be a father? I try not to think about it. You smile because those hopes have been fulfilled in some way. |
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Brandy
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 05:28:00 PM » |
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Because last time you disagreed and said you didn't want anything to do with it. The question is: Why? A man who expects nothing is never disappointed. A man who expects nothing and is never disappointed never truly lives. Expecting nothing so one is not disappointed is a defense mechanism. And defense mechanisms can choke the life out of a person. I know this is kind of a lame example, but do you hope for a degree in philosophy in a year or two? No, it is a goal, not a desire. Teleology doesn't include expectations. How does one reach a goal without the desire to do so? Do you not hope to marry or find a fulfilling relationship some day? Or to be a father? I try not to think about it. You smile because those hopes have been fulfilled in some way. Why do you try not to think about it? The question remains: What does hope mean to you? |
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Michelle
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 05:43:39 PM » |
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I'm curious as to if you have ever hoped for anything, even as a child. Most children I know are fairly hopeful, even for little things. I'm curious if you used to hope and something happened, or if, with the current definition Brandy's trying to get out of you, it just happened that you, for lack of a better term, "grew out of it."
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Anxiety
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 05:53:48 PM » |
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A man who expects nothing and is never disappointed never truly lives. Expecting nothing so one is not disappointed is a defense mechanism. And defense mechanisms can choke the life out of a person. Says you.  Tell that to a Buddhist. How does one reach a goal without the desire to do so? How does an acorn become an oak tree without the desire to grow? I'm curious as to if you have ever hoped for anything, even as a child. Most children I know are fairly hopeful, even for little things. I'm curious if you used to hope and something happened, or if, with the current definition Brandy's trying to get out of you, it just happened that you, for lack of a better term, "grew out of it." Surely I've hoped for things. Hope is the greatest scourge of Western culture. Why do we teach people to hope? What good comes from hope that passion for justice cannot more effectively replace? |
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