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Author Topic: Applied Ethics Questions  (Read 2612 times)
Anxiety
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« on: December 02, 2008, 12:00:12 PM »

Is it ethical to steal money from a terrorist organization?
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Bruce Blagg
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2008, 10:01:34 PM »

I guess I'll take the first stab at this.

Depends ... ... ...  Smiley

Who is doing the stealing?  What is meant by "stealing"?  And what is meant by "terrorist organization"?

If the who is a recognized government, and stealing means confiscating through legal means, and the terrorist organization is the Al Qaeda, then yes I believe it is ethical.

If the who are the patriots of Boston, and stealing means throwing tea over the boat into the bay, and the terrorist organization is the Monarch of Great Britain, then no I do not believe it is ethical.

Let the conversation begin.  Smiley 
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Paul
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2008, 10:35:45 PM »

Hey Bruce - stop stealing my arguments!   Grin 


In the clinical or moral absolute sense - the answer is no. 


That being said, let's look at the definition of Ethics from Dictionary.com

Ethics - the body of moral principles or values governing or distinctive of a particular culture or group


In this sense, it could be ethical to steal monies as it deals with the values governing a particular culture and how the culture deals with terrorism.

Moral - founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom 

In this case, while it may be ethical it is not moral.  Although interesting enough, a synonym for Ethics is moral.  Yet as we can see there is a difference.


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Anxiety
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 03:19:34 PM »

Quote
Who is doing the stealing?  What is meant by "stealing"?  And what is meant by "terrorist organization"?

Allow me to be more specific.

The thief in question is of Swiss nationality.  He steals funds from the terrorist organization's bank electronically.  The terrorist organization uses the funds to kill innocent people in Sudan.  The individual uses the money he steals to purchase a new Hummer.
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Paul
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 06:06:17 PM »

Both the Swiss nationalist and the Terrorist are using the funds to forward their own agendas. 

First. he is a thief by his own accord. --- unmoralistic
Second the terrorist is using the funds to kill people -- unmoralistic
Third - they both are immoral.

As a swiss nationalist - and swiss is known to take a hands off on money transaction whether they are by good or bad people through their banks.  It may be ethical in his society.  With a don't ask, don't tell atmosphere concerning others, I would wager that it would not be an outrage to do this in his society.

Unknown where the terrorists' money is being held.  If it is in a society that is conducive to a terrorist, then the gathering of the funds for killing is not unethical.  If the money is being held in a society where this would be unethical, it probably would be illegal and subject to seizure by that country's government.  The seizure of the money is therefore ethical.  The party seizing it is questionable though.

Just because the act is immoral on both parts, does not make it unethical in each person's culture. 
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Anxiety
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 06:09:53 PM »

I was looking for a more personal analysis rather than speculation on what the hypothetical people's cultures might perceive their actions to be.

I must ask though, from your perspective, is there any objective morality?
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Paul
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 07:31:31 PM »

On a personal note,  I would say that it can have an objective moral point of view.

Personally, I find that both are immoral and unethical in my personal point of view.  Stealing is stealing, whether it is from a child, store, or even a friend let alone from a criminal. Killing people is also just as wrong  and immoral, which I would of course be against. However, doing an immoral person an unethical act does not relinquish the fact that both are wrong in my morals.

Is my morals written in stone, yes, but action and judgement is only conceived when the full light of the situation has shown what the causes were.  It is not the person that slants the moralistic viewpoint but rather But my own code of conduct in judging the consequence.

Stealing is wrong, but I would not judge harshly a person who stole to feed himself or others, to get care and for the betterment of fellow humans/animals. (for the animal lovers  Shocked)  I probably would help them find ways to get what they need legitimately. 

Killing others, if it came to a personal survival instinct, I would probably have to side with the killer. What we call "terrorists" are in other arenas known as freedom fighters.  In the American Revolution we were considered Terrorists.  Once, we won, we were no longer the terrorist but a new country recognized by the world.  If it is being done just for terror of others, then it is unequivicably unethical and immoral.

Objective Morality is a valid thought.  But the judging of your reaction is what is in flux constantly.  Cool

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Brandy
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2008, 11:19:51 AM »

In this particular case, my opinion is that both the Swiss man and the terrorists are thieves. Each is stealing money for his own gain. It's not even the "Robin Hood" syndrome- which is still stealing and unethical, but where most people would think would be less "unethical" than stealing just for one's own gain.

(Forgive me, I feel like my words are all jumbled today and I'm not making much sense. The communication lines aren't running smoothely in my brain and between there and my fingers....  Embarrassed. Sorry if I'm not making sense.)

And Paul, is "unmoralistic" actually a word? I couldn't find it on Merriam-Webster.  Wink Cheesy
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Paul
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2008, 05:32:43 PM »

And Paul, is "unmoralistic" actually a word? I couldn't find it on Merriam-Webster.  Wink Cheesy

OK, so it should have said immoral -   Grin 

I agree with your analysis on the thieves, yet the terrorist organization in the scenario did not indicate that they were stealing money, only using the money to do killing.

So, did you mean to address the killling portion and just mistyped thieves instead.


Love the excuse that you gave,  (Forgive me, I feel like my words are all jumbled today and I'm not making much sense. The communication lines aren't running smoothely in my brain and between there and my fingers....  . Sorry if I'm not making sense.)   I can use that one when Christine corners me on something that I write.   Loved it.    Wink  Cheesy 
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Anxiety
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2008, 06:12:37 PM »

Further information: The terrorist organization is funded via private donations.  By consequence of having the money stolen, they cannot build any more bombs to kill people.

Does this change anything?

Quote
OK, so it should have said immoral -

I think the word you were groping for was amoralistic.

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Paul
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 06:52:27 PM »

Quote
OK, so it should have said immoral -

I think the word you were groping for was amoralistic.

Thanks for the help.  Smiley

Answer to new scenario -   No.   police
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Brandy
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 10:20:01 AM »

But is the Swiss man really any more ethical or moral than the terrorists? He may not be killing people, but he is stealing for his own selfish greed. And selfishness and greed breeds desire for power, and that desire can be just as dangerous.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 10:34:45 AM »

But is the Swiss man really any more ethical or moral than the terrorists? He may not be killing people, but he is stealing for his own selfish greed. And selfishness and greed breeds desire for power, and that desire can be just as dangerous.

All he really wants is just a new car. 

Let's change it up a bit.  If he used the terrorist money to fund cancer research that could save countless lives of innocent children, would this change the situation any?
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Brandy
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008, 01:48:01 PM »

While I'm sitting here thinking about it, my mind keeps seeing different sides. At this point, I think it's still wrong. He's stealing funds electronically through a terrorist organization's bank- a terrorist organization that collects this money from evil people for the soul purpose of evil actions. Nothing is good about this. Many cultures (and my opinion at this time) would believe that that money is "tainted goods." The people who gave that money may think what they're doing is right. He thinks what he's doing is right. Where do you draw the line? It has to be drawn somewhere. He's stealing and doing what he thinks is better. He's taking justice into his own hands. He's essentially being Robin Hood. And while I, personally, may look at justifying a lesser punishment, there are still consequences.

Not to mention that stealing from a terrorist organization is never a good idea. It will most assuredly come back to bite him in the...butt.

And, it won't stop the terrorist organization from killing people. They will raise more money or find other ways to carry out their mission.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2008, 02:13:59 PM »

Less money = Less bombs = Less deaths

In this respect, is he doing the ethical thing by stealing their money?

Consider this:  Would it be ethical if the United States government stole the terrorist's organization money?  What would be different about this? 

Is it ethical for the Swiss man to kill terrorists?  How about the US Government?  Is there a distinction between the two?
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