Cartesian Skepticism

Bruce Blagg

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Re: Cartesian Skepticism

« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2009, 10:07:04 PM »

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The knowledge gained by past experience then shapes our decision making abilities.

Oh, if only it were so!


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Anxiety

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Re: Cartesian Skepticism

« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2009, 03:58:47 PM »

This has been my favourite dialogue so far, so I'm going to attempt to revive it. Since we've beaten the first part of my question to death about the deceiving book, let's investigate Bruce's elegant reply to this type of skepticism.

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In fact, by itself I don't know if the Bible is true or not. I read the Bible and believe what it says because the voice of God, who is the truth, brings out the truth and confirms it in both my spirit and my mind.

This is hard for me to explain clearly. But a true follower of Christ does not follow Him because of what he or she has read in the Bible. They follow him because of an encounter with His person. The Spirit of Christ (or Holy Spirit) uses the Bible to deepen and enrich their relationship with Him. Even those people who say that they came to a decision to be a Christian after reading the Bible didn't do it simply by reading it, but by responding to the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking through what they were reading.

Yes, we use the Bible to "prove" or "explain" the truths we believe. But it is because we have found it to be a reliable and trustworthy map for the life we are experiencing. Not the other way around. After all the Bible is not a thesis or comprehensive philosophy, but a composite of personal stories of people's experience with God, and what they learned to be true.

How do you know the voice isn't a deceiver? I know we've already had the reply that anything contra-God would be 'evil' in some way and further questions were said about intrinsic evil and good. I guess this leads us to a question of judgment.

Is there a faculty which we posses that enables us to recognize things as good or evil? Do neutral things exist that we may be ethically and reasonably indifferent to? If so, what would these good/evil/neutral things be?


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Bruce Blagg

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Re: Cartesian Skepticism

« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2009, 09:10:48 AM »

Wanted to let you know that I read this. Don't know that I can give a complete reply right now for it is a great question. But here are a few of my initial thoughts.

If there is a deceiver's voice (and I believe there is,

), then there must be at least two voices. There may even be a third voice if I include my own. So the question becomes how can I distinguish between these two or three voices?

My first reaction is that I would have to compare the three voices (and there may be many others if we consider other voices, such as friends, family, culture, marketing, etc., but for simplicity I recommend that we limit this to just these three). The question then becomes are there characteristics that a "normal" person could recognize and distinguish in such a way as to recognize God's voice, the deceiver's voice, and my own voice?

Let me think about this and get back to you. But, meanwhile, do you have any reaction to my line of reasoning so far?


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Anxiety

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Re: Cartesian Skepticism

« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2009, 12:06:04 PM »

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The question then becomes are there characteristics that a "normal" person could recognize and distinguish in such a way as to recognize God's voice, the deceiver's voice, and my own voice?

Correct. Even one distinguishing characteristic may be sufficient. I'm glad you've added introspection into the mix, because the question becomes particularly difficult once you add your own 'voice'.


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USFEngineer

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Re: Cartesian Skepticism

« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2009, 08:36:35 AM »

Quote from: Anxiety on March 17, 2009, 12:46:55 AM

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Most Cartesian scholars opine that the evil demon is also omnipotent, and thus capable of altering mathematics and the fundamentals of logic.

Are we to suppose that the deceiver, who is stated as being omnipotent, is as powerful as the teller of truth?

If so, then why should it matter. Both books would be of equal merit as the deciever can take good acts and make them bad, and the teller of truth can take bad acts and make them good.

Also, could the deceiver not take the good book and use a mortal to twist the book? Then we would have many books circulating, all containing a piece of the truth, but all but one is deceptive. Could the deceiver not also make himslef to sound like the teller of truth?

So, I guess what I am asking is whether the deceiver is as strong as the teller of truth or not? Also, are both sides willing to take any action for their side to be heard louder? Or, does the teller of truth play within a field of rules and laws? We know the deceiver does not as he can manipulate mathmatics and everything else.


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A child recently asked me what eight times four is. I thought about it for a while. I put together some experiments. I ran some tests. I searched through numerous published articles on number theory.
I then came back to the child and responded, "What's a 'four'?"

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