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Author Topic: Preaching the Gospel  (Read 401 times)
USFEngineer
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« on: June 18, 2009, 05:39:29 PM »

A few years ago I was reading through scripture and I found a verse that didn't make sense:

Matthew 4:23 - "Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people."

It didn't make sense because I had always been taught that the Gospel was that Jesus died and was resurrected on the third day. However, Jesus was preaching the Gospel long before his death. Now it could be argued that he was foretelling his death, but then how does one justify Luke 9:6. In this verse, the apostles go from town to town preaching the gospel. At this point in time, none of them know about and/or believe in Jesus death. In fact, Matthew 16:23 and Mark 8:33 occur after this point. So how did they go preaching something they didn't accept (rhetorical question-don't answer this, Paul)?

I guess what I'm asking is, what does preaching the gospel mean in the context of verses like Matthew 4:23 and Luke 9:6?
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A child recently asked me what eight times four is. I thought about it for a while. I put together some experiments. I ran some tests. I searched through numerous published articles on number theory.
I then came back to the child and responded, "What's a 'four'?"
Paul
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 09:16:18 PM »

But they did believe in the gospel (Good News)!  It was not rhetorical question.  A way to understand the verse is to look at who the characters are, what time frame they are living in, and what could be a reasonable assumption of their religious viewpoint.

Let's look at other verses to try and put us into the mindset of Jesus and his disciples. 

Matthew 15:  24 Then Jesus said to the woman, ?I was sent only to help God?s lost sheep?the people of Israel.?,
Mark 7: 26 Since she was a Gentile, born in Syrian Phoenicia, 27 Jesus told her, ?First I should feed the children?my own family, the Jews.[k] It isn?t right to take food from the children and throw it to the dogs.?
   28 She replied, ?That?s true, Lord, but even the dogs under the table are allowed to eat the scraps from the children?s plates.?
   29 ?Good answer!? he said. ?Now go home, for the demon has left your daughter.? 30 And when she arrived home, she found her little girl lying quietly in bed, and the demon was gone.

In these two verses, one can understand that Jesus main interest was for Israel.  His focus is to help Israel, and he also puts Israel and the Jews over other religions  as noted in Mark 7 with the gentile woman.

Judaism, which was the religion of Jesus and the disciples, is set to heal the original soul - Adam - and therein would allow all the Jews  (could be read as everyone) into being accepted into the Kingdom of God for eternity.  The ultimate goal is to heal the world, not only the Jews.  As such by believing in Judaism, one could see the blessings of the One True God by the very nature of the old testament and the Jewish race.

While Christianity has interpreted this to be the Gospel of Jesus, I believe that it was more the Gospel of Judaism. For they believe that the Kingdom of God is always just a prayer or action away from becoming reality. Jesus is noted to teach in the synagogues, if he was preaching the Gospel of Jesus, I very much doubt that he would have been allowed to continue. You may also note that his miracles are almost all done with a saying about how the person's faith is what cured the afflicted person, it was not his doing. Which would lead to one believing that he was pursuing Judaism as the appropriate way to get to the Kingdom.
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Michelle
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 09:52:05 PM »

Wasn't the Good News of Jesus, that he had come - and not just of his resurrection?  He went around healing and forgiving - that was good news!

Acts 10:36
This is the message of Good News for the people of Israel?that there is peace with God through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

I can't remember which thread it was, but Bruce made the comment the other day that the resurrection proved that Jesus was who he said.  That is definitely part of the good news.  I think the disciples were spreading the word that Jesus was there; the Messiah was here; that the Kingdom of God was near. 
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Paul
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 05:46:44 AM »

I think that your quote from Acts is what the Good News turned into.  Remember that at that moment in Acts, Jesus has already died.
The verses noted before where when he was still actively preaching. 

By Jewish religious law, the messiah could not tell or say that he was the messiah, for it is written that God will make the Messiah apparent to the rest of the world.  So, as he preached in the synagogue he could not state that he was the Son of God or the Messiah for that would have disqualified him totally.  Just before his death, he asks Peter "who do you say I am" and Peter responds with the affirmative messiah response that then becomes another prophecy fulfilled. No one else til just before his death has recognized him as the messiah. Do I think that he felt that he was the messiah, possibly, for he astutely manipulated the masses and those that came to him for help by using reverse psychology and telling them not to tell anyone how they were healed.  Which of course would lead to a wide spread rumor mill about this really cool dude who chases out demons. How else would they explain how they suddenly were cured? Jesus only tells each person that it was THEIR faith that cured them, not that he had any hand in it.

There were in those times, lots of faith healers, even today there are faith healers.  Does that make it any more or less special?  No, it shows that he was religious enough to understand what the power of faith can do through a person.  By preaching the good news as Judaism, then he was accepted throughout the land as knowledgeable, understanding and meaningful. He also seems to have the ability to "setup" how his followers will look at the world. After his death, then the Good News changed into his story as converts wandered away from the original meaning, as St Paul redefined the words in keeping with his vision of Christ.   

 



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Michelle
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 02:30:42 PM »

Paul, what is the "gospel of Judaism" that you keep mentioning?  (reader's digest version, please!  angel)

Forget religious terms - judaism gospel, good news, etc.  what do you think they said to people?  I think you're right, they probably didn't say, Hey look at this guy,Jesus, he's the Messiah, the son of God.  It was probably more like, God is sending someone to heal you, someone to give you peace and hope, someone to rescue you. 

Yes, in Acts, Jesus had already died.  But I don't think the "good news" changed when Jesus died to incorporate his death...I think it was him the whole time.  He fulfilled the good news.  His death made the good news the good news because it proved he was who he was. 

My head hurts now...lol...I hope that made sense!
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USFEngineer
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 04:24:40 PM »

Paul, when you speak of the Gospel of Judaism versus the Gospel of Jesus, are you making the assumption that Jesus is not part of the Gospel. Better yet, that He is merely a vessel that was used to teach the Gospel?
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A child recently asked me what eight times four is. I thought about it for a while. I put together some experiments. I ran some tests. I searched through numerous published articles on number theory.
I then came back to the child and responded, "What's a 'four'?"
Paul
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 09:41:17 PM »

Great questions! 

Paul, what is the "gospel of Judaism" that you keep mentioning?  (reader's digest version, please!  angel)

Forget religious terms - judaism gospel, good news, etc.  what do you think they said to people?

Jesus would say what every rabbi would say to someone.  He believed in the Torah (the first five books), and the rest of the old testament including all the laws and psalms. 

Using Stong's concordance for translation -
gospel would mean 1) to bring good news, to announce glad tidings
a) used in the OT (old testament) of any kind of good news
1) of the joyful tidings of God's kindness, in particular, of the Messianic blessings


The messianic blessings were the foretelling of what the Old testament had to say about the future of Israel when the country would again in a powerhouse in the world and theologically. Not that Jesus was the messiah.

Your version that Jesus was talking about himself is very prevalent and accepted in Christianity.  I just don't see it when we look at Jesus as a person in the first century.


Paul, when you speak of the Gospel of Judaism versus the Gospel of Jesus, are you making the assumption that Jesus is not part of the Gospel. Better yet, that He is merely a vessel that was used to teach the Gospel?

Clarification - there are two DIFFERENT Gospels here.  The Gospel (glad tidings) of Judaism - (Moses, the travails of Israel and the future promise of Israel being resurrected as the powerhouse both theologically and as a world status that it was in the past). Then you have the Gospel (glad tidings) of Jesus which occurred after Jesus died. Til he died, the Gospel was strictly about Judaism, he could not be considered the messiah except by the Jewish Gospel and the Pharisees. After he died then the Gospel of his life and resurrection became the new religion, but did not replace the Jewish Gospel, which is still taught today.

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USFEngineer
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2009, 11:09:33 AM »


Your version that Jesus was talking about himself is very prevalent and accepted in Christianity.  I just don't see it when we look at Jesus as a person in the first century.


Luke 4:16-21 Shows Jesus preahcing the Gospel and at teh same time declaring himself to be the fulfillment of that scripture. It seems to me that Jesus was talking about himself.

John 5:16-18 Shows people getting mad at Him for teaching about himself as part of the Gospel.

Matthew 9:6, 10:37, 11:27, 12:28, 12:40, 16:13-16, 16:27-28, 17:12, 19:28, 20:28, 21:27-38 (a nise parable), 22:41-45, 25:31-46, 26:26 Are all versus in which Jesus was teaching and or preaching in which he referred to himself as a significant part of the message. I left out a bunch more that can be stretched to say that same thing. I also left some out that I missed. This is also just form one book. If you would like I can go through mark, luke and John as well.

Matthew 3:17, 17:5 Even shows God doing a little preaching. The only thing God has to say in all of the Gospels, but not the only times he says it.

I'll agree that the general Gospel that is taught today is not the same as what was taught by Jesus at that time. However, I don't think the Gospel changed any.


Logged

A child recently asked me what eight times four is. I thought about it for a while. I put together some experiments. I ran some tests. I searched through numerous published articles on number theory.
I then came back to the child and responded, "What's a 'four'?"
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