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Author Topic: What is the life of human flourishing in naturalistic terms or other terms?  (Read 702 times)
Rubicon
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 01:36:57 PM »

@Paul. I will try to post some replies and new things on this maybe eventually, but right now I can't think of anything new to say. Like I said eventually, I could go through that one book on the 12 spiritual disciplines and show how most of them has their own secular or naturalistic counterpart, but that would be a long post and I don't have the energy to type up a proper one yet.

You mention Kant. I have been listening to the Teaching Companies philosophy course download on philosophy (Great minds of the western intellectual tradition.) It is a really interesting course. Personally lately I find philosophy more interesting than religion, but that's just me.

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Paul
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 06:10:24 AM »

Nice hearing from you again Rubicon.  Glad to see that your life has become a better place for you. 

You may like Kant.  Can't take everything he says as "Gospel"  but he has a nice rationale.  Anxiety is the real student of Philosophy. 

You may find that looking at theology from the eyes of a philosopher opens new dimensions and questions. If we did not take the writings as being "holy" could they then be philosophical views?  Since they are stories told with the purpose of trying to solve or identify a characteristic or thought in that time period. The ancient philosophers taught through stories so that the masses could understand them, yet the lesson would be relevant years later. 

Apologetics is similar to those students of a particular philosopher. They are trying to defend a thought or philosophy even if it doesn't answer a situation properly.  If we are honest with ourselves, then we would admit that no one has ever come up with a philosophy that answered everything adequately.  If we did then the science would cease to exist.   We as a species tend to hold onto that which we agree with and attack that which would make us question our own thoughts. As you know 75% of humans will resist change no matter what.  It is who we are and it takes a "breaking of Belief" to move forward and accept a new thought.  Doesn't always mean that the new thought is correct, just that we as a species have grown to understand and accept other thoughts as possibly valid. We can then enjoy what we have learned in a new light and reflect on how we lived before under a different thought.  Comparison of ideas - sometimes not a bad thing, if taken with a little 'salt' and not as the new 'correctness'.  Wink

Enjoy your studies and your peacefulness.  Look forward to talking with you again. 

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Anxiety
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2010, 04:26:40 PM »

I feel out of love with Kant. I think it's impossible to universalize things given the explicit differences in things that share similar forms. We are nuanced. We share much alike in medical terms, and sometimes cultural terms. However, it is an impossibility to state that we are thinking and feeling and existing in embodied states in a way that is similar enough to universalize our actions for 'humans'.
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Paul
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 05:52:07 AM »

Of course you would fall out of love for Kant.  He doesn't answer everything, nor is he neat or tidy. But can you take a piece of his thoughts and use them in an overall diagnosis of the world's conditions as he knew them and as you find relevant today?  What about the other great philosophers, can not one or two thoughts from each fit into a situation or understanding of the human race?  I contend that we need many different thoughts and experiences to flourish.  It is when we try and solve the need to flourish with only one thought that we become disillusioned.  What if you could assemble a reference book with one or more thoughts from each philosopher that you felt pertinent to life?  That would solve the problem of nuances and allow for you to "love" the overall process of philosophy without discovering that each philosopher's thoughts were inherently flawed.  You would have a "bible"  of naturalistic terms and idioms to flourish by.  Like the real bible it would have an overall theme of life's processes to live by and also many conflicts between the different authors.  It is when we stop looking for the nuances and accepting that we as a species change and discover new ideas that this book too will be considered "holy" not as a tool to help us flourish in our relationships.
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Anxiety
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2010, 05:21:54 PM »

I'm not trying to rest my beliefs on one person's philosophy, or even multiple philosophies. I've found Kant to be the most pragmatic form of ethics. The principles are easy to apply and are almost always consistent.

If we can take anything from Kant it's that we ought to act as if our actions are universal, even though they are so self-evidently not. This runs counter to Rand's (puke) notion of the individual agent and the selfish imperativ which is chiefly responsible for the oil that's encroaching on our shores right now.
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Paul
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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2010, 09:38:11 PM »

Not only do I like your answer. I agree with your analysis. 
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