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Author Topic: Capitalism  (Read 331 times)
Anxiety
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« on: October 07, 2009, 06:21:59 PM »

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

What do you think?
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moosemaster1341
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 02:27:20 PM »

It's a metaphor. When "rich man" is mentioned, it means a man rich in sin, or the disfavor of God.
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But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most? - Mark Twain
Anxiety
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 03:25:43 AM »

Err, really?
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Bruce Blagg
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 11:54:30 AM »

Jesus' comments follows right after he had asked a wealthy young man to sell all that he had, give it to the poor, and then follow him.  It was recorded that when the wealthy young man turned away, Jesus was quite sad because he loved him.  But the wealthy young man had just finished telling Jesus that he had kept all the commandments from birth (which is quite an audacious thing to say).  So Jesus should him by his question that he had not.  For he loved his materialism, his wealth, more than his relationship with God.

Jesus then turns to his disciples and makes this comment.  The comment itself has caused quite a bit of commentary.  Some say that it means exactly what it means, that Jesus is talking about a camel trying to go through the eye of a physical needle.  Others say that the word translated as camel is the same word as the word for "coarse thread" but is missing one accent mark, which would make it difficult but not impossible.  Another explanation is that there was a small gate in the wall of Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle" which camels had to get down and crawl in order to fit through.  But there is some doubt about the existence of the gate.

The most common (and for me reasonable) commentary is that the camel was one of the largest animal in Israel at the time and the eye of the needle was one of the smallest openings.  So Jesus was using an analogy to illustrate the difficulty for a rich person to not love his money more than his God.

But the conversation doesn't stop there.  When his disciples heard this they were amazed and asked, "Who then can be saved?"  For in there culture, wealth was a sign of blessing and poverty was a sign of God's displeasure.  Jesus replied that what is impossible for man is not impossible with God.  In other words, God would make a way for all who wanted to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Just a side note, we know that wealth alone is not a disclaimer because of people mentioned in the Bible who were very wealthy and had an intimate relationship with God.

That's my two cents on the passage.  Smiley
 
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moosemaster1341
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 09:41:01 AM »

"So Jesus was using an analogy to illustrate the difficulty for a rich person to not love his money more than his God."

This here is odd as I would think that poor people love money more than rich people do. A greater love of money would come from needing it to survive rather than having more than enough to get by. Perhaps Jesus was being vague?
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But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most? - Mark Twain
Bruce Blagg
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 11:29:30 PM »

Quote
This here is odd as I would think that poor people love money more than rich people do. A greater love of money would come from needing it to survive rather than having more than enough to get by. Perhaps Jesus was being vague?

Great comment.  It is true that those without money can fixate on it as much or more as those who have it.  I agree with the observation.

But when you have little or nothing, it is easier to trust in "a higher power".  When you are self-sufficient (or believe that money makes you so), it is hard to trust anything else but your money.  I have often found that those who are "poorer" are often more generous (proportionately) than those who are "wealthier".
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Paul
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 09:57:25 PM »

While I have to agree with Bruce's analogy, I find that the verse describes not a love of money, but rather a security blanket level of mentality that comes with having sufficient monies to survive.

I agree with Moosemaster about the relationship of money when comparing a wealthy and a poor person.
Fixation on the money is different. The promise of "security" is what I feel is the driving emotion.  The verse speaks of giving everything up and trusting in an unknown power or circumstance to provide a feeling of security to a person. 

Capitalism and Communism, or socialism all end up being tainted by humans. Each will submit to a power and "security blanket" level based on the personal views of those in that system. All end up eventually with a class that "rules" and holds onto a higher level of livelihood then the majority of the rest of the society which is at a lower level.

Maybe the question is what does Jesus mean by the Kingdom of God?  He may have a totally different view then what the church subscribes to. If you look at his commandment to treat others as well as yourself, then the entire view of the traditional Kingdom of God would have a look of totally equality of wealth, love, lifestyles.  Something that even today would be hard to accept.  If you only used what you needed to survive, shared equally of all materials, looked out for the betterment of your fellow humans that would be extremely difficult for the majority of humanity to accept.  We all want our toys.  Grin
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