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Author Topic: Suicide and Euthanasia  (Read 213 times)
Anxiety
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« on: May 30, 2010, 08:42:28 PM »

Is it ever okay to commit suicide? How about euthanasia, either passive or active? What if it is physician assisted?

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Paul
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2010, 10:08:50 PM »

 From a Christian theological view, according to Bible.com - Very few would argue with the fact that suicide is a direct breaking of the Sixth Commandment which is, "You shall not murder." We are not to murder each other or ourselves. God created human beings in His image and each of us carries within us the potential to overcome the evil in this world, and to rule and reign with Christ in heavenly places. If we are Christians, we no longer belong to ourselves, but to God. We are overseers of our bodies and our lives (which belong to Him), and we are responsible to guard that which has been entrusted to us.

Suicide is a grievous sin that seriously hurts both the heart of God, and those who loved the deceased. The pain of losing a loved one who took their own life is not easily healed, and often isn't fully healed until Heaven. Whether you are contemplating suicide or know someone who killed themselves, God wants you to know there is hope and life for you. He is the great Healer and Restorer of what has been lost or stolen.


However, as you can see in this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWy6pKVendQ
It brings about a different perspective, as we can see the last few days of the patient and the reason why he chose to end his life.

Lawfully, suicide is not illegal but a failed suicide is. 

A factor is what the morals of a person may be a decision depends on they base their choices on a religious belief.

In Native America it was not considered illegal and in some tribes it was part of their culture that when a person became a drain on the community because of age, disease or a number of other reasons they did what was referred to as a "walk off" where they left the tribe on their own to end their own lives and to die where no one would find them. 

As a society, we tend to glamorize some types of suicides.  Imagine how many movies that you see wherein the hero or heroine sacrifices (commits suicide) of their lives to protect others.  The wonderful spy so that he doesn't leak secret information to the other side, the warrior who decides to stand against an unsurmountable foe to gain time for others to get away. The woman who through her love for a child or a member of her family will go willingly to her death.  Under these terms we don't see these  actions as a suicide yet that is what they are.  Each person knowingly decides to die. A death is a death is a death no matter what you choose to call it.

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Anxiety
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 09:50:10 PM »

I like how you explained it both from the Christian perspective and a morally relativistic perspective.

I also really like how you brought up the notion of human sacrifice as a form of suicide. Using suicide for a cause is usually seen as heroic, and isn't really regarded as suicide at all.

As a thought experiment, let's try to imagine the unimaginable. Let's put ourselves in the radical fundamentalist culture of the 9/11 hijackers. Would we view them as heroes? Why or why not?

How about the Japanese kamikaze pilots?
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Lee Encinosa
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 11:38:01 AM »

As a thought experiment, let's try to imagine the unimaginable. Let's put ourselves in the radical fundamentalist culture of the 9/11 hijackers. Would we view them as heroes? Why or why not?

"Radical fundamentalist culture." Anxiety,I see your involved in the politically correct movement. Experiment or no experiment lets call them what they are,TERRORISTS!! Anyone that would view a terrorist as a hero is a fool!
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I will rise,when He calls my name,no more sorrow,no more pain
Anxiety
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 03:59:32 PM »

Not everyone living in a radical fundamentalist culture is a terrorist. Only the people who commit acts of terrorism are terrorists.

But let's try something else since you have a problem with that...

Would you consider someone from the US military a hero for sacrificing himself so that his fellow soldiers could survive?
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Paul
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 09:43:04 PM »



As a thought experiment, let's try to imagine the unimaginable. Let's put ourselves in the radical fundamentalist culture of the 9/11 hijackers. Would we view them as heroes? Why or why not?

How about the Japanese kamikaze pilots?
Would you consider someone from the US military a hero for sacrificing himself so that his fellow soldiers could survive?

Interesting, as I contend it is the perspective that determines the outcome of the answers.  Since you have asked that we put ourselves into the mindset of a radical fundamentalist culture of the 9/11 hijackers - then I would have to say that they can be viewed both ways.  As a radical that is so far to the right wing thought of a religion and consider that we are in a holy war against the Christian infidels then yes I would say that the hijackers are heroes and brought to light that biblically - they should be considered as David against Goliath of the old testament.   As a moderate member of that same culture, I would have to admit that while I may not like, nor respect the viewpoint of the US government, it is not the populace that has made me feel this way, and that innocents should never be placed in harm's way nor have to suffer for their leaders.  I would have to say that I feel sympathy for the hijackers and what they had to decide in taking their own lives, but I could not agree with the action nor the outcome.

The Japanese Kamikazes were dedicated to the culture of their country.  They are the same as our own troops fighting for what they believed was sacred to them.  The Japanese culture and in our case the culture of America.  Many of the survivors have said that it was not until they left the airport that they discovered that the wheels on the plane became detached on takeoff.  To land was to die needlessly, to try and parachute out was not an option with no parachute and the hatch bolted shut from the outside.  It then became only one option left to them and that was to make as much damage to the enemy (allies) as they could to try and have their loved ones survive the war.  For some it was not heroism but a matter of accepting their fate.

Your third scenario would seemingly be the easiest for us to agree on. Of course, the soldier is a hero.  He save the lives of many by forfeiting his. It is an admirable thing.  But is it?  It is planned suicide.  But it is also a showing of unconditional love for their fellow friends.  It may be done so others can proper and life safely, it may have been done to demonstrate a wrong ideology to another.  It is what Ghandi preached when his civilian troops stood unarmed in front of British soldiers and died without any weapons in hand, to demonstrate and persuade the British to discontinue from the course it was taking. Each civilian accepted that they may die for the cause which would benefit all of India, and that another would also give their life for them if necessary.

Which may interject the thought that the difference between suicide and heroism is the end result.  If we commit suicide because we personally cannot find a way to cope with the world, are at an end point with some situation and the other person that would benefit is the person doing the suicide then it is considered a sin.  If the same scenario ends with a benefit to others then that person is a hero.  Maybe the question is, how many people have to benefit from a death to be considered a heroic death? Either way the person is dead.  Maybe the suicide was the easiest way to handle the situation for both.


 
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Lee Encinosa
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 08:03:21 AM »

Not everyone living in a radical fundamentalist culture is a terrorist. Only the people who commit acts of terrorism are terrorists.

But let's try something else since you have a problem with that...

Would you consider someone from the US military a hero for sacrificing himself so that his fellow soldiers could survive?

I was speaking of the cowards who planned and flew the plane into the buildings as being terrorists not the entire culture as a whole as you are trying to make it sound. Yes, I would say that someone who gave up their life to spare another's is a hero depending on the situation. Jesus sacrificed His life so many others could have eternal life so could we say Jesus committed suicide? I don't think so! People commit suicide usually because they can't cope with a problem or the world in general. The Bible states that you shall not commit murder so that's what I will go with.
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I will rise,when He calls my name,no more sorrow,no more pain
Anxiety
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 10:38:29 PM »

Wow, I've never even thought of the possibility of Jesus committing suicide and the ethical implications of that.  That's definitely something to put some thought into.

If Jesus knew he would die given the circumstances, and Jesus didn't do anything to prevent the circumstances from happening, then I'd say that's pretty much suicide based on Paul's definition above.

What do you guys think?

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Paul
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 06:44:45 PM »

Since no one wants to answer the question, here is a modern version of the idea that Jesus could be considered a suicide.

We have to look no further than Mahatma Gandhi.  He adored Jesus and felt that his vision of peace and non-violence which he coined "Satyagraha" could be considered as equivalent to the crucifixion of Jesus.
Wikipedia:Gandhi distinguished between satyagraha and passive resistance in the following letter:
"I have drawn the distinction between passive resistance as understood and practised in the West and satyagraha before I had evolved the doctrine of the latter to its full logical and spiritual extent. is a metaphor for non-violence. I often used ?passive resistance? and ?satyagraha? as synonymous terms: but as the doctrine of satyagraha developed, the expression ?passive resistance? ceases even to be synonymous, as passive resistance has admitted of violence as in the case of suffragettes and has been universally acknowledged to be a weapon of the weak. Moreover, passive resistance does not necessarily involve complete adherence to truth under every circumstance. Therefore it is different from satyagraha in three essentials: Satyagraha is a weapon of the strong; it admits of no violence under any circumstance whatsoever; and it ever insists upon truth. I think I have now made the distinction perfectly clear."


Note his "rules of engagement":
On another occasion, he listed seven rules as ?essential for every Satyagrahi in India?:[15]
must have a living faith in God
must believe in truth and non-violence and have faith in the inherent goodness of human nature which he expects to evoke by suffering in the satyagraha effort
must be leading a chaste life, and be willing to die or lose all his possessions
must be a habitual khadi wearer and spinner
must abstain from alcohol and other intoxicants
must willingly carry out all the rules of discipline that are issued
must obey the jail rules unless they are specially devised to hurt his self respect


Notice that the rules are extremely similar to how we view Jesus.

Faith in God -Jesus - Love God with all your heart.
Believe in the truth - the inherent goodness of human nature - the willing suffering at the hand of the agressor- Jesus - I am the way, the truth, and life - Love your neighbor as yourself.
chaste life willing to die or lose all possessions - Jesus -  "unsinful", crucifixion, story of the rich man
khadi wearer- or in Jesus time - a person of common means - carpenter's son
obey the law that is issued - Rabinical law, law of the romans

The two about alcohol - Jesus did drink wine,
nor did he obey the jail rules as he was not jailed but merely taken away and beaten for crucifixion.
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